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 2.9 Beta version

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Peps
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PostSubject: Re: 2.9 Beta version   3rd March 2017, 10:36 am

As we talk about flying units, one question came from a discussion with french players: in rulebook V2.9. it is written "All Units ignore obstacles when making a Range 1+ ATTACK if the target is a flying unit. This rule does not apply to multiple or area ATTACKS."

If we strictly follow the rule as written, that means that an area ATTACK on an area containing only flying units needs no obstacle on the LoS.

I feel that the spirit of the rule is: "you cannot use this "ignore obstacles" rule when you target an area with a flying unit in order to impact also non-flying units in the same area, for which you would have needed a LoS with no obstacle." But this is not what is strictly written in the rule.
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Biel
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PostSubject: Re: 2.9 Beta version   3rd March 2017, 12:39 pm

Except if the wish is that you can make area attack only in area you can see, no matter the units it contains.
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PostSubject: Re: 2.9 Beta version   3rd March 2017, 1:21 pm

@Atapoti
I am assuming that they meant the 0 based attack from a rock or into a full capacity area. It doesn't make sense to me that a range 1+ character loses range because they are in the same area. As for Zeus, it specifically states that Area and Multiple attacks with a range of 2+ ignore Evade with the exception of the rule concerning LoS and obstacles.
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PostSubject: Re: 2.9 Beta version   3rd March 2017, 1:26 pm

Concerning the Area attack and Los and obstacles, I don't see why one needs to see all of the units there since you are attacking the area.
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PostSubject: Re: 2.9 Beta version   7th March 2017, 4:35 pm

I just finished to read the whole V2.9., and if I'm not wrong I didn't see anything regarding the cumulative bonuses given by talents, powers and terrain.

We use to apply this: "if talents and powers give a bonus to the same stat, then consider only the best of these bonuses. Terrain bonuses then adds to the stat."
Ex: the 4 amazons are on an area with a rock, and in this area there is also a hero with Bolster, as well as Eurytus and his "Eagle-eye" power (+1 to ranged attacks for other friendly units in the same area as him). THe amazon attack at: 3 (their Offense stat) + 1 (their bonus if they are at least 3) + 1 (the terrain bonus) + 1 (the best of the bonuses from talent Bolster and power Eagle-eye, which are both a +1 bonus) = 6.
Is it correct?

Has this "non-cumulative" rule been cancelled? Or did I overread it?
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Biel
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PostSubject: Re: 2.9 Beta version   7th March 2017, 9:05 pm

I look for that rules this afternoon and didn't find it Pep's. Maybe cancelled.
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PostSubject: Re: 2.9 Beta version   7th March 2017, 9:41 pm

HI All,

I have couple of questions.

1. Is it possible to attack your own units when there is no enemy involved?
I understand you can use an area attack to hurt the enemy and accept that if there are also your own minis they will get also hurted BUT can you do that area or normal attack when there is no enemy involved? like doing Charging from Minotaur to kill your own troops? From my point of view if there is no enemy involved it shouldnt be possible.

2. Minis that block the visibility. Shouldnt be taken into considerationt the size of the unit? human size blocks human size but not God's size. Gods blocks Gods or smaller but not Titan.
Its hard to imagine for example Oedypus blocking the sight to Apollo.

3. Mighty throw. instead of by category, doing it but number of original Vitality. 1-6 Vitality requires 1 blank (all hero /troop size and monster small size. 7-10 Vitality 2 blanks. All Gods, Monster and Bellerophon and Herakles.  11-12 vitality  3 blanks Only Titans.

Thanks for the feeback.
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PostSubject: Re: 2.9 Beta version   8th March 2017, 9:02 am

1-if the power say: all units so yes. If it say ennemy units, so no. And as you said, only by aera attack.

2-Size don't count.

3-i prefere units type. Its more clear and loosing vitality don't mean loosing weight...
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PostSubject: Re: 2.9 Beta version   8th March 2017, 9:21 am

@Aquiles : i think it's better if the rules remain straightforward. What you're asking would imply fetching rules a lot. ^^
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PostSubject: Re: 2.9 Beta version   8th March 2017, 2:55 pm

Aquiles10 wrote:

1. Is it possible to attack your own units when there is no enemy involved?
I understand you can use an area attack to hurt the enemy and accept that if there are also your own minis they will get also hurted BUT can you do that area or normal attack when there is no enemy involved? like doing Charging from Minotaur to kill your own troops? From my point of view if there is no enemy involved it shouldnt be possible.

In the Mythic Bible V2.9., it is clearly stated that: "[Choosing a target]: A unit must choose an enemy unit as its target." and "[area attacks]: The target area must contain at least 1 enemy unit. The area may also contain friendly units."

Amen.

Shocked

Smile
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PostSubject: Re: 2.9 Beta version   8th March 2017, 4:03 pm

Peps wrote:
Aquiles10 wrote:

1. Is it possible to attack your own units when there is no enemy involved?
I understand you can use an area attack to hurt the enemy and accept that if there are also your own minis they will get also hurted BUT can you do that area or normal attack when there is no enemy involved? like doing Charging from Minotaur to kill your own troops? From my point of view if there is no enemy involved it shouldnt be possible.

In the Mythic Bible V2.9., it is clearly stated that: "[Choosing a target]: A unit must choose an enemy unit as its target." and "[area attacks]: The target area must contain at least 1 enemy unit. The area may also contain friendly units."

Amen.

Shocked

Smile
What about the caledonian Boar Breath so, if there are only some friendly unit in his area ?
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PostSubject: Re: 2.9 Beta version   8th March 2017, 5:04 pm

According to me all units suffer the 4 dice attacks, even if there are no ennemies on the area, as we can consider that no area is targetted by the Calydonian Boar Breath.

But this is my interpretation.
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PostSubject: Re: 2.9 Beta version   8th March 2017, 6:50 pm

In the same way that if you decide to move one of your units on Python area (asuming Python is in your army), your mini will receive the attack, but isnt the same than after that activate Python to attack it.
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Biel
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PostSubject: Re: 2.9 Beta version   9th March 2017, 1:27 am

Flying Units
Flying units are marked with a bird <<< insert icon >>>> on their dashboards or troop cards. They ignore all terrain effects.

Forest
Terrain effect : units in this area gain +1 Defence against any ATTACK by a flying unit, or any ATTACK at Range 1+.
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Telgar
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PostSubject: Re: 2.9 Beta version   9th March 2017, 8:34 am

@Biel : I don't see the issue. The flying unit is the attacking unit. It's the defending unit which gets a defense bonus for being in the forest (except if the defending unit is flying).
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Biel
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PostSubject: Re: 2.9 Beta version   9th March 2017, 8:11 pm

@Telgar : +1 defence against any attack by a flying unit. So it affects the attack of the flying unit but this unit ignore all terrain effects. It doesn't affects his offence but his action, the attack.
I think it could be better wording.
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PostSubject: Re: 2.9 Beta version   13th March 2017, 11:18 am

@QW - any news on a new revision of the rules ?
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PostSubject: Re: 2.9 Beta version   16th March 2017, 5:33 pm

Some new comment from the TricTrac forum :
The attack bonus from an elevated area makes sense when attacking an enemy below - not so much when you're attacking someone else in the same area or on another rock.
It wouldn't be too complex to specify this bonus applies only against enemies on other type of areas.

This reasoning do not apply to swamp or ruin areas where modifiers remains logical for units in the same area.
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Biel
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PostSubject: Re: 2.9 Beta version   17th March 2017, 1:19 am

Telgar wrote:
Some new comment from the TricTrac forum :
The attack bonus from an elevated area makes sense when attacking an enemy below - not so much when you're attacking someone else in the same area or on another rock.
It wouldn't be too complex to specify this bonus applies only against enemies on other type of areas.

This reasoning do not apply to swamp or ruin areas where modifiers remains logical for units in the same area.
I Agree
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PostSubject: Re: 2.9 Beta version   20th March 2017, 8:32 am

I did not read the whole topic so I don't know if it has already been noticed : someone on TT spotted an issue in the 2.9.
Page 8 : " A unit cannot ATTACK after it has taken a WALK action in the same activation."

I think that is the contrary that was meant : a unit cannot walk after attacking...
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PostSubject: Re: 2.9 Beta version   20th March 2017, 10:54 pm

Yes this was addressed on the first page of this discussion and QW had fixed it. There has been a lot of good work done to help with the rules on here. Thanks to everyone for that! I am sure there will be a few errors or clarifications needed in the final product, most do. I think we can look forward to an amazing game! Thanks QW and the staff for listening and communicating with us!
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PostSubject: Re: 2.9 Beta version   22nd March 2017, 2:09 pm

Some comments from the TricTrac forum about saturated zone rules:
(some already mentioned at a point or another I believe)
2.9 wrote:
If a target’s area is full, then an adjacent ATTACKER may choose whether they want to ATTACK it from the area they are in (requiring Range 1), or as if they were in the target’s own area (Range 0). If the ATTACKER chooses the second option, then all normal rules for a Range 0 ATTACK apply. For example, a flying target could evade. In either case, do not move the ATTACKER.

What about saturated rock area ? Can an adjacent unit which couldn't normally reach the area (not climbing nor flying) perform a range 0 attack against a unit on the rock area, if the area is full ? A tactic would be to move a flying or climbing unit to this area to make it full and attack with another unit from the adjacent area. It seems counter-intuitive.

What about area bonuses ? Would the unit in the "lower" area gain the +1 offense bonus ? This seems also counter-intuitive.
(the same could be asked for ruins for example : +1 defense against the counter-attack ? It seems less counter-intuitive in these cases)

What about movement points ? Attacking a saturated area actually makes you spare one movement point. With a move of 1, you may move 1 area and attack the next (saturated) area. If the area was not saturated, you wouldn't be able to attack anyone in this area.

What is the ATTACK in the above definition ? IIRC, in BoW 1st video, we can see Leo's Medusa use her Petrification Power (which works only in her own area) against Athena (and others) in the adjacent saturated area...
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PostSubject: Re: 2.9 Beta version   24th March 2017, 4:49 pm

Troop abilities vs Bolster -
Most troops have some sort of bonus based on the troop strength. However if units are limited to benefiting from the largest single bonus, without bonus stacking - does that mean the Bolster talent has no effect on complete troops?
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PostSubject: Re: 2.9 Beta version   24th March 2017, 9:14 pm

Very fair points, Telgar. I hope we get an answer. I'm eagerly wiaitng for the finalized version of the rules.

Obsidiox wrote:
Troop abilities vs Bolster -
Most troops have some sort of bonus based on the troop strength.  However if units are limited to benefiting from the largest single bonus, without bonus stacking - does that mean the Bolster talent has no effect on complete troops?

From what Leo has said, it does. Troops' abilities do not count as bonuses.
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PostSubject: Re: 2.9 Beta version   25th March 2017, 10:41 am

Troop bonus are "Mass effect", not power or talent so you can add to terrain and talent or Power
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