The official MYTHIC BATTLES: PANTHEON message board.
 
HomeCalendarFAQSearchMemberlistUsergroupsRegisterLog in

Share | 
 

 2.9 Beta version

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
AuthorMessage
Telgar
Spartan
avatar

Posts : 193
Join date : 2016-12-31
Location : Paris

PostSubject: Re: 2.9 Beta version   15th February 2017, 10:11 pm

Good question!
Back to top Go down
View user profile https://the-overlord.com/
Labyrinthsecho
Villager


Posts : 11
Join date : 2017-02-10

PostSubject: Re: 2.9 Beta version   15th February 2017, 10:14 pm

I know some units can Retaliate before an attack so you would have to accounce it before dice are rolled in that case at least...
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Kalack99
Villager


Posts : 49
Join date : 2016-12-29
Location : Bloomington, IL

PostSubject: Re: 2.9 Beta version   15th February 2017, 11:39 pm

The Retaliation would be very useful in a situation where you could finish off a unit. Or what if a unit is a troop which will likely die before your next turn? This way they get a chance to do something before they are gone. Just how I would use it.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Garshell
Spartan
avatar

Posts : 141
Join date : 2016-12-29
Location : Toulouse

PostSubject: Re: 2.9 Beta version   16th February 2017, 12:17 am

WTFGamer wrote:
Another Retaliate question. Does anyone ever do it? I don't think I've ever seen the move used in a gameplay demo. It's limited to a melee attack for an activation (vs moving, or taking an omphalos, or using a non-special attack power along with a melee attack). Save having two activation cards for the unit in question and getting back to back attacks with it, is retaliate ever a good use of a precious activation card?

It s an activation in the ennemy turn, this don't use AoW card and if you have initiative its even better cause you can reduce enemy stat before his attack et if you have MT, you can also with luck throw him away where he cant attack you anymore and then he lose his activation action.

All depend the unit and the situation. But yes i already did it some times.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Peps
Villager
avatar

Posts : 82
Join date : 2016-12-31
Age : 41
Location : South of France

PostSubject: Re: 2.9 Beta version   16th February 2017, 1:19 pm

Retaliate is double-edged: on one hand you activate one of your unit during the opponent's turn, on the other hand you lose one simple action for this activation.

This is a choice that depends on circumstances.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Biel
Spartan


Posts : 108
Join date : 2016-12-29

PostSubject: Re: 2.9 Beta version   16th February 2017, 2:11 pm

Is it really an activation Pep's ? For example, do Hydra recover 1 wound ?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Ryo
Villager


Posts : 18
Join date : 2016-12-29

PostSubject: Re: 2.9 Beta version   16th February 2017, 2:16 pm

Sorry if my comments overlap someone's suggestions.

page 10 wrote:
A unit can only use talents or powers if it has previously taken a DEPLOY action.

If all units start the game off the battlefield in all scenarios, this expression is good. However, when a unit starts the game on the battlefield, the unit will never take a DEPLOY action. I feel that this sentence should be amended.

page 18, Second Assault wrote:
Roll a number of dice equal to the number of the first assault’s dice that rolled, or were modified to, a 5.

You must roll all 5s. Is this rule changed? (In previous version, you can choose the number of the dice to be rolled in the second assault).

page 26, Evade wrote:
Any player, when a flying unit in the player’s army is declared to be the target of a Range 0 ATTACK (including an area or multiple ATTACK) by a unit with a Range of 0-1.

Concerning "a unit" In this sentence, "a non-flying unit" may be more specific.

By the way, I'm looking forward to the layout version.

Thanks!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Garshell
Spartan
avatar

Posts : 141
Join date : 2016-12-29
Location : Toulouse

PostSubject: Re: 2.9 Beta version   16th February 2017, 2:31 pm

Peps wrote:
Retaliate is double-edged: on one hand you activate one of your unit during the opponent's turn, on the other hand you lose one simple action for this activation.

This is a choice that depends on circumstances.

Yes but most of the time you ll move and then attack. Here on a reteliate action you ll only attack, but maybe you ll anyway just attack him on your turn with this same activation card, so you save time on opponent turn.

Then i have a little question about retaliation.

rules say: Retaliation is always Range 0, regardless of the unit’s stats, or any applicable talents, or powers.
A retaliation is resolved using the current Offence and Defence values of the units.

What you understand by applicable talent or power ? Ok the attack will be range 0 so that mean you can't retaliate in a full area against an attack from an adjacent melee attack. And even if you got some range possibility with talent, stat or power, that ll be range 0 for this attack. But when i read this that mean i can get use some talent and power from this unit or from ally unit in the same zone.
So when i read "retaliation is resolved using the curent Offence Defence values or the unit, i feel like i can't use power or talent. so I m confuse.

So if we can use Power, can we attack with power as well ?
If i retaliate with minotaur or other unit like that, can i "Charge Attack" or use any other passive/activ power of this unit ?

Nothing seems write about that in the rules. May i use some passiv or active power after resolving the retaliate attack, during this unit activation.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Garshell
Spartan
avatar

Posts : 141
Join date : 2016-12-29
Location : Toulouse

PostSubject: Re: 2.9 Beta version   16th February 2017, 2:32 pm

Biel wrote:
Is it really an activation Pep's ? For example, do Hydra recover 1 wound ?

I think so, so it seem passiv power are apply. Now what about activ and attack power ?

@Ryo: Good points
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Peps
Villager
avatar

Posts : 82
Join date : 2016-12-31
Age : 41
Location : South of France

PostSubject: Re: 2.9 Beta version   16th February 2017, 3:40 pm

Biel wrote:
Is it really an activation Pep's ? For example, do Hydra recover 1 wound ?

Good question, I have no answer. But I would say no.

Regarding what Garshell wrote above, we instinctively use passive powers and don't use others (Charge of the minotaur for example).
That would mean that Hydra could regenerate, but we never met this case. But on Hydra's passive "Regenerate", it is stated "at the end of its activation", so the question is clear: is retaliate an activation?

An official answer, and a clarification in the rules would help, I think Wink
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Garshell
Spartan
avatar

Posts : 141
Join date : 2016-12-29
Location : Toulouse

PostSubject: Re: 2.9 Beta version   16th February 2017, 4:21 pm

i would say: You use an activation card to do retiliate, so its an activation.

If retaliate would use only AoW that could be different.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Orword
Villager
avatar

Posts : 51
Join date : 2016-12-30
Location : Hades

PostSubject: Re: 2.9 Beta version   16th February 2017, 11:08 pm

Rulebook wrote:
Activation: the opportunity within a turn for a unit to take simple actions or
complex actions.

According to this definition, it should not count. However, I too believe it would be better to clarify it in the Retaliation section.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
poymaster
Villager


Posts : 3
Join date : 2017-01-07

PostSubject: Re: 2.9 Beta version   17th February 2017, 12:59 am

page 17 of the V2.9 :
Retaliation does not count as a unit’s activation

About unit's powers : pretty sure you can't charge as a minotaure,

[hand symbole] : from beta rules pdf : This Power is Active. It can only be used on the unit’s turn.
Units with charge power should have this icon (Mino and Calydonian Boar got false dashboard, you should refer to the Colchis Bull)

About using other powers
- [star/hit icon] : beta rule pdf says : This Power is Instant. It can be used anytime whether it is the unit’s turn or not. It has an Art of War card cost.
I look at some of them, it seems ok to use them (if no trigger like "at the end of his activation")

- [lightning icon] : beta rule says : This Power is a Special Attack that may be used as an Attack action.
p17 of v2.9 say : A retaliation is resolved in the same way as an ATTACK, and counts as an ATTACK for purposes of interacting with other rules
So i guess no problem here neither to use them with the retaliate restriction (range 0, vs the attacker only and so on)

- [hourglass icon] : well those are passiv, they might or not be triggered ^^

@garshell :
"A retaliation is resolved using the current Offence and Defence values of the units."
To me this means the values at the exact time when the retalation occurs : torment, terrain types, bolster ... (powers and talents in general)
Otherwise Radhamantus Talion Law (+1 offense on retalation for surrounding units) would be disapointing ^^

(late reply, not native tongue, beg you pardon :p)
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Atapoti
Villager
avatar

Posts : 12
Join date : 2017-01-12

PostSubject: Re: 2.9 Beta version   17th February 2017, 8:29 pm

Orword wrote:
Rulebook wrote:
Activation: the opportunity within a turn for a unit to take simple actions or
complex actions.

According to this definition, it should not count. However, I too believe it would be better to clarify it in the Retaliation section.

The retaliation section actually already states specifically: "Retaliation does not count as a unit's activation."

Couldn't be more clear than that.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Atapoti
Villager
avatar

Posts : 12
Join date : 2017-01-12

PostSubject: Re: 2.9 Beta version   17th February 2017, 11:47 pm

Now that I've had a chance to take a close look at the rules in their entirety, here is a giant cyclops list of things I caught:


1. There should be a section detailing the different types of powers: Passive, permanent, special attack, instant, and active. It should also contain the note about limits on stacking bonuses for powers and talents.

2. Under Winning the Game section, both instances of scenario needs to be bolded.

3. Under Recruit an Army, I suggest swapping step 2c and 2b. It’s a small thing, but this will help follow a more progressive thought of: what happens when I get my god, can I pick another, and what do I do next?

4. Under Limit of Activations, I suggest the first sentence end with “per turn”. The “in each off their turns” makes the sentence too wordy.

5. Second sentence under Limit of Activations, I suggest removing “further” and adding another sentence: “These do not count toward the active player’s maximum activations.”

6. Under Inactive Players, the third bullet about activating a unit of troops should be reworded. It is too wordy and hard to follow. My suggestion: Activate a unit of troops that is designated with a Leader talent by a friendly active player.

7. Add a bullet under Inactive Players for Passive and Instant Powers (if instant powers are still in the game).

8. Under Actions section, there needs to be a sentence that says how each simple action can only be performed once per activation.

9. Under the Moving section, it should be made clear that all troop miniatures counts as one unit, moves as one unit, and can never be split up. Additionally, each troop unit and not miniature counts toward a space’s capacity.

10. For the DEPLOY (Complex Action) section, the sentence reading “A unit can only use talents or powers if it has previously taken a DEPLOY action” should end with: “and did not start the game on the battlefield” to account for scenarios where a unit may start on the map (if there is such a thing).

11. Under the DEPLOY (Complex Action) section, in the second sentence, army and deployment zone need to be bolded.

12. Under Attacking, add a note stating that a Special Attack power counts as having performed an ATTACK (simple action) and counts towards the ‘each simple action once per activation’ limit.

13. Under the Choose a Target, under ATTACK(Simple Action) section, I would strongly recommend removing the sentence stating “A unit with Range 0 can only target enemy units in their own area.” Here is my argument: There will be lots of confusion coming from this sentence. People will interpret it as a Range 0 unit not being able to attack outside their zone even if they get bonuses (like Achilles on a rock). Some people already get confused when a melee character gains range and combining that existing confusion with this sentence will lead to misinterpretation. The “only” will be taken to mean that under no circumstance can a melee unit attack outside its area. Additionally, the very next sentence already describes a case where a Range 0 unit can attack outside its area. The first three sentences of the Choose a Target section makes it clear enough what a range 0 units can attack.

14. Under Effective Offence/Defense, I would place a reminder about the limits of bonuses stacking from powers and talents.

15. In the last example under Second Assault section, the sentence that reads: “The first assault generated 2 results of 5, so roll 2 dice.” The two “2”’s should be written out as “two” to match formatting in an earlier section and avoid confusion between numbers.

16. Under Wounds & Destroyed Units, second and third sentence have the word dashboard that need to be bolded.

17. In the Area ATTACK section, there is an example of Zeus’s lighting. Please make sure that this attack actually targets friendlies, because the current dashboards specifically states enemy units.

18. Under Maneuvers, the first sentence should be removed or reworded. I don’t know what it’s actually implying because it isn’t really saying anything rules wise. If it’s a generic definition, it belongs under game terms. Also, they’re called special actions in this sentence, but they’re not real actions since they aren’t tied to a unit activation like normal actions are.

19. Under Maneuvers, add a sentence stating which powers are a type of maneuver (i.e. special attack, active, instant). Right now it’s not clear to me. Do active powers and special attacks count as maneuvers, even if they cost zero? Are passive powers considered maneuvers? Does a power only count as a maneuver if it costs AoW?

20. In the Maneuvers table, for Draw Cards, active player should be bolded.

21. In the Maneuvers table, under Invoke Power, I suggest that rather than have the word “Varies”, state something like 0 - 3 . Assuming that a 0 cost power is a maneuver, this will help make it clearer that cost 0 powers are a type of maneuver. Ignore this if this is not the case.

22. Under Talents, add a sentence regarding stacking limitations for bonuses given by talents and powers.

23. Under Talents, add a sentence that a troop must be complete in order to use its talents.

24. Under Talents, add a reminder that a unit is considered to have no talents if it performs a complex action.

25. If Instant Powers are still in the game, then it should be added under Game Terms.

26. Maneuvers is missing under Game Terms. Also, it’s bolded in some parts of the rules but not others.

27. Under game terms, this should be added to the definition for Draw: “…and place them in your hand.”

28. If active powers and special attacks are considered maneuvers all the time (even at cost 0), then the game term for both should state that they count as a maneuver.

29. Should terrain type or terrain effect be game terms?

30. Under Game Terms, Passive Power should be reworded as it’s too wordy. My suggestion: “a type of power that can be used at any time by a unit, except when that unit is active and takes a complex action.”

31. Under Game Terms, under Permanent Passive Powers, it should read: “…when a unit takes a complex action,” rather than “…makes a complex action.”
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Ryo
Villager


Posts : 18
Join date : 2016-12-29

PostSubject: Re: 2.9 Beta version   18th February 2017, 5:29 am

Here are my comments on v2.9 rules.

Page 9, Fireproof Units, 2nd paragraph

An additional explanation on terrain effects other than lava may be necessary: some thing like "They are subject to all other terrain effects."

Page 28, Force of Nature wrote:
If this unit is in an area containing a ruin or tree miniature...

Accoding to page 12, the 3D element is called as "ruined columns" and ruin is a terrain name. It may be "a ruined column" or at least "a column".

Thanks!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
clarenceooi
Villager


Posts : 27
Join date : 2016-12-30

PostSubject: Modifiers for attach/defense   18th February 2017, 3:20 pm

The new rule specify modifiers can be applied, as long as it's not below 0 or more than 10. Therefore if Artemis stand on cliff (1+1) with Eurytus (+1), her arrow become attack power of 9? Please confirm, thanks!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
clarenceooi
Villager


Posts : 27
Join date : 2016-12-30

PostSubject: Evade   18th February 2017, 3:50 pm

The rule says that flying unit can evade range 0 attack of the attacker having range of 0-1. What if the attacker use power that can throw terrain piece at range 0-2? Then the flying unit can't evade? Thanks!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Orword
Villager
avatar

Posts : 51
Join date : 2016-12-30
Location : Hades

PostSubject: Re: 2.9 Beta version   18th February 2017, 7:32 pm

clarenceooi wrote:
The new rule specify modifiers can be applied, as long as it's not below 0 or more than 10. Therefore if Artemis stand on cliff (1+1) with Eurytus (+1), her arrow become attack power of 9? Please confirm, thanks!

Based on what I know from the old rulebook, the cliff bonus and Eurytus' Eagle Eye do NOT stack. Only the higher bonus of the two is applied, as mentioned in the OLD rulebook:

Old rulebook wrote:
Note that :

  • If multiple Talents or Powers grant a bonus to the same characteristic, only the Talent or Power with the greatest modifier is applied.
  • If multiple Talents or Powers impose a penalty to the same characteristic, only the Talent or Power with the greatest modifier is applied.
  • If one Talent or Power grants a bonus for a characteristic and another Talent or Power imposes a penalty to the same characteristic, then both effects are applied.

However, there is not mention of this in the new one. This is why I think we need a specific section for stats and bonuses that apply to them (or don't, like troops' effects). Same goes for powers and their various types.


Back to top Go down
View user profile
clarenceooi
Villager


Posts : 27
Join date : 2016-12-30

PostSubject: Re: 2.9 Beta version   19th February 2017, 12:08 am

Hi Orword, thanks for the reply. Is the terrain bonus under the same category as talent and power? For me they are different, so should be able to stack. However Artemis and Eurytus talent/power may not be able to stack, as Eurytus seems unlikely to teach Artemis more about archery, so I agree that only the highest modifier should apply. Terrain is just an advantage that all should be able to enjoy. Can we confirm and make it clear in the rule book? Thanks
Back to top Go down
View user profile
clarenceooi
Villager


Posts : 27
Join date : 2016-12-30

PostSubject: Obstacle   19th February 2017, 12:55 am

Artemis ignore obstacle when she shoot, so she can shoot enemy behind a rock or cliff? Is there different classification of obstacle to differentiate passable obstacle such as trees/column and the solid obstacle? Thanks!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Telgar
Spartan
avatar

Posts : 193
Join date : 2016-12-31
Location : Paris

PostSubject: Re: 2.9 Beta version   19th February 2017, 2:33 pm

Stacking bonuses should indeed be made clear.
My understanding was that NO bonuses can stack... with one exception : the bonuses mentioned on the troop card. The reasoning is that these bonuses are similar to the changing numbers on the non-troop unit's dashboard (att/def/range&mov reduced when vitality drops).
Back to top Go down
View user profile https://the-overlord.com/
Kalack99
Villager


Posts : 49
Join date : 2016-12-29
Location : Bloomington, IL

PostSubject: Re: 2.9 Beta version   19th February 2017, 4:10 pm

Concerning Retaliation
It is not an Activation as is stated under the description. The cost of an Activation Card to do it is simply a way of keeping the entire scenario or skermish in a feeling of real combat. Units will get exhausted eventually. This use of thier cards is a way of symbolizing that exhaustion. Which means you should be careful about when you choose to use Retaliation.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Kalack99
Villager


Posts : 49
Join date : 2016-12-29
Location : Bloomington, IL

PostSubject: Re: 2.9 Beta version   19th February 2017, 4:31 pm

Artemis is a seriously nasty archer. *Edited* there is no doubt according to her card, she can STILL see you!! Lol

As for the bonuses/penalties, it does seem to have been changed from the previous rules. The only restriction I have read in 2.9, is that stats cannot go below 0 or above 10.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Voice of Olympus
Herald
avatar

Posts : 382
Join date : 2016-12-29

PostSubject: Re: 2.9 Beta version   20th February 2017, 12:46 pm

Sorry for not getting back to you guys. Busy...

A quick skim shows me the heartening quality of comments that I've grown to expect from you all. Thank you again Smile

We're laying out the rules now, and I'll see if I can incorporate all of the suggestions into the first new laid out version you see. I'd guess, in a few days. Might have some other bits before that though.

Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: 2.9 Beta version   

Back to top Go down
 
2.9 Beta version
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 2 of 5Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
 Similar topics
-
» Version Select Kouki Aero w/ Kouki wing
» Beta 400RR for sale - £2500
» TEAMSPEAK Beta 17
» Mobile version needs work
» Callaway Diablo Edge Tour Version Driver for Beginner/High Handicapper

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
A GOOD PLACE :: Mythic Battles: Pantheon :: Gameplay-
Jump to: