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 Ultimate army list I have now!

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clarenceooi
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PostSubject: Ultimate army list I have now!   26th February 2017, 4:07 am

I believe I have found the ultimate combination for this game. I challenge all of you who has played enough to counter my claim.
Typhon 10RP, Ketos 5RP, Sisyphus 2RP, Hoplite 1RP, total 18RP.
Strategy:
A. Deploy Sisyphus and Hoplite
B. Deploy Ketos then Typhon
C. Move Sisyphus to block line of sight of any ranged attack to Ketos
D. Typhon move and deploy tornado . He can attack directly or use the tornado to move enemy towards him, so no one can collect Omphalos while I keep drawing cards to get all units ready.
E. Typhon can absorb Omphalos if the enemy don't come out, and still keep everyone in range with his 3 movement+1 ranged attack.
F. Once anyone is in range, Typhon will attack the one, mighty throw towards Ketos after attack, or use tornado to throw. Then Ketos will move in with the ranged+1 14 dices cursed of the sea attack. If the unit is hero, next turn could die by using the Ketos' devour power. Typhon can call the Hoplite to protect him at the end of turn.
G. The next turn whoever come forwards will have a big trouble. With just spending one AoW to activate the second unit, I can attack with Typhon 10 dices, Ketos 9+7+7=23 dices (seriously, isn't it overpower as monster?). Ketos attack whoever in his range, Typhon can attack anywhere and throw people around either to drop Omphalos, to make enemy to be in range with Ketos, or to ensure there is obstacle between enemy ranged to Ketos.
H. Since I only really need to move two units per turn, I'll never run out of activation and AoW cards as I get to reshuffle the discard piles whenever I finish my hands. There is no redundant activation cards from those unit that I couldn't activate due to the 2 activations limit.
I. With Ketos, all the special power of hero, except Perseus, is nothing as he can kill in one shot. With the help of Typhon who can give him free movement or just throw the enemy into his reach, Ketos is overpower in my opinion with 23 dices normal attack!
J. Typhon can take on any archer/weaker God up to 4 areas away. With tornado the reach is 6 areas away, so none can turtle or run pass him. When paired with Ketos, you'll have the most coverage and most attacks (total 10+23=33 dices) in one turn.
Can anyone suggest a list that can beat this team? Thanks!
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clarenceooi
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PostSubject: Re: Ultimate army list I have now!   26th February 2017, 2:40 pm

After received some feedback from the Kickstarter forum, I further explain my list as before:
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clarenceooi
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PostSubject: Ultimate army list I have now!   26th February 2017, 2:41 pm

I believe I have found the ultimate combination for this game. I challenge all of you who has played enough to counter my claim.
Typhon 10RP, Ketos 5RP, Sisyphus 2RP, Hoplite 1RP, total 18RP.
Strategy:
A. Deploy Sisyphus and Hoplite
B. Deploy Ketos then Typhon
C. Move Sisyphus to block line of sight of any ranged attack to Ketos
D. Typhon move and deploy tornado . He can attack directly or use the tornado to move enemy towards him, so no one can collect Omphalos while I keep drawing cards to get all units ready.
E. Typhon can absorb Omphalos if the enemy don't come out, and still keep everyone in range with his 3 movement+1 ranged attack.
F. Once anyone is in range, Typhon will attack the one, mighty throw towards Ketos after attack, or use tornado to throw. Then Ketos will move in with the ranged+1 14 dices cursed of the sea attack. If the unit is hero, next turn could die by using the Ketos' devour power. Typhon can call the Hoplite to protect him at the end of turn.
G. The next turn whoever come forwards will have a big trouble. With just spending one AoW to activate the second unit, I can attack with Typhon 10 dices, Ketos 9+7+7=23 dices (seriously, isn't it overpower as monster?). Ketos attack whoever in his range (hero will die very fast, monster and God will not be long too), Typhon can attack anywhere and throw people around either to drop Omphalos, to make enemy to be in range with Ketos, or to ensure there is obstacle between enemy ranged to Ketos.
H. Very important point: Since I only really need to move two units per turn, I'll never run out of activation and AoW cards as I get to reshuffle the discard piles whenever I finish my hands. There is no redundant activation cards from those unit that I couldn't activate due to the 2 activations limit, and I always can get the initial activation cards that I need with the 3 initial AoW. Therefore there is no such thing as 'if you can't get the card you need'.
I. With Ketos, all the special power of hero, except Perseus, is nothing as he can kill most of them in one shot. Most of the special power of heroes (such as Andromeda) can only be used when they're in range 0 or 1, which is not possible with the help of Typhon who can give Ketos free movement, or just throw the heroes into his mouth, or throw them out of reach. Ketos is overpower in my opinion with 23 dices normal attack!
J. Typhon can take on any archer/weaker God up to 4 areas away. With tornado the reach is 6 areas away, so none can turtle or run pass him. When paired with Ketos, you'll have the most coverage and most attacks (total 10+23=33 dices) in one turn.
K. For the race of absorbing Omphalos, Typhon is the sure winner with 6 activation cards and tornado to either throw himself into the next Omphalos area for free movement so he can absorb next turn, or throw the opponent's away so the Omphalos will drop.
Can anyone suggest a list that can beat this team? Thanks!
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stills999
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PostSubject: Re: Ultimate army list I have now!   26th February 2017, 5:14 pm

If this combination turns out to be a balance issue, perhaps an additional rule could be that 5 point units can not be selected if the player has also selected a titan.
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Aquiles10
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PostSubject: Re: Ultimate army list I have now!   26th February 2017, 10:28 pm

Hi Clarence,

1st of tell you that this All Star team sounds devastating Very Happy great idea this combo with tornados to move Ketos or bring him the units Wink

I have never played a game, but I'm kind of crazy about this game i have spent hours watching the minis, artwork, the stats, the powers... I'll try to make a counter army Smile

Certainly Typhon is the most destructive unit in game (by far) expensive ofc, in my opinion i think its too much but this could be another topic to discuss Razz

Your army has 23 cards which 7 are AoW cards. Short deck. I know you think that giving the oponent the rest of the deck for free wont impact you, but i think this is a mistake. At some point i would have the rest of all my AoW and activtions cards so i can whatever i want. this is a huge leverage for your oponent. Never understimate the power of giving the rest of the deck.

How to stop the two most ****** creatures? i dont really know, but i would try this.

The key is use the lack AoW cards in your deck. With 7 probably you wont use the Tempest (thank god Razz) but Typhon "only" with the 6 act. cards can destroy everything anyway.

My 1st thought is Perseus(4 rp). He can petrify and you will need to waste activation+AoW. He brings me 2AoW cards and cant be eaten by Ketos. So definetily he is in.

Then I would go for Echo(2 rp). She can Howl to Typhon and also makes your close units need to spend extra AoW card.

I have thinking about Oedypus. To hurt him you will need to discard 2 AoW cards... which makes him kind of "invulnerable" but then i thought that Diomedes is inmune to Tornados and can make a good damage to Typhon with his God Killer and bring 2 AoW cards. Diomedes is (3 rp)

Odysseus seems to be the smart guy I need to help with extra activations, bring more AoW cards and some distance attack. (3 rp)

Then the God. I have doubts since i dont know which one would be the best choice. Athena is the best. Multiple activation, 3 AoW cards, distance attack... but i see her fragile against those two Leviatans Razz Hecate is very polivalent. range atack, makes oponent discard, and -1 A /-1 R attacks. Like her but not sure... Apollo with reange attack and Lyre to avoid combat damage sounds good too. In the end I would go Hephaestus. he brings 2 AoW cards, he is the toughtest god, brings extra units with guard and the most important thing Flames of the forge. He can glue the units and make then unable to activate.

The plan is altern Petrify / Flames of the Forge Typhon. Distract with Echo. Avoid Ketos and collect omphalos while them cant act or Kill Typhon by Hammering him with Hephaestus, Diomeding him and Howling him.

The deck has 32 cards which 12 are AoW cards. I think could be an interesting game

Hephaestus  6 rp 4act 2AoW
Perseus       4 rp 4act 2AoW
Diomedes    3 rp 4act 2AoW
Ulysses       3 rp 3act 3Aow
Echo           2 rp 4act 0AoW
LavaGolems 0 rp 3act 0AoW

What are your opinions guys?
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Obsidiox
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PostSubject: Re: Ultimate army list I have now!   26th February 2017, 11:22 pm

Assuming that the team was assembled and I could build any counter team I wanted I would go with:

Athena 6rp
Prometheus 4 rp
Medusa 3rp
Basilisk 3rp
Caucasian Eagle 2 rp

The idea would be to petrify with Medusa and the Basilisk while Prometheus (a Monster) pounds on the petrified Typhoon and Ketos. Even if they get in a few hits, he's very tough and regenerates. If can kill Typhon, fine, but I wouldn't count on it and would use the eagle as an Omphalos fetcher.

Edit: and if I were counter drafting, I would target Sisyphus, not Ketos. With the power of Typhon, I might target Sisyphus as a rule just to deny him tge cheap AoW cards
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Biel
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PostSubject: Re: Ultimate army list I have now!   27th February 2017, 12:08 am

K. If Typhon suffer mighty throw from a tornado, it should be your opponent who choose where Typhon is thrown as it is from an area attack. No ?
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Terenceooi
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PostSubject: Re: Ultimate army list I have now!   27th February 2017, 12:43 am

Hi, everyone, This is Terence (Brother of Clarence). Clarence and I have been playing MBP together and we claim that Typhon + Ketos is the ultimate combination.
The idea of Typhon + Ketos is to get the maximum output/damage in each turn (Typon 10 , Ketos 9+7+7,=23 total 10+23 = 33 damage/turn, with just 1 AoW/turn to activate the second unit). We never use Tempest (power) when playing Typhon because it costs too many activation cards. We want to save the AoW. We only use AoW to activate second unit or Devour (power of Ketos). Because you can only activate two units/turn, so I always want to activate this combination only (Strongest Titan and Strongest Monster) when I want to fight. To make sure I can activate them whenever I want, I want to make my deck as SHORT as possible so I can finish my deck as SOON as possible so I can get my discarded activation card (Typhon and Ketos) back to my deck and activate them again and again. I use Sisyphus to get 4 AoW so I can always search my deck for activation card of Typhon or Keto whenever I need it. I do not care that my opponent can get the rest of the deck for free because he can only activate 2 units per turn, I do not care he has 30 cards and 20 AoW in his hand or deck. THE LONGER (THICKER) THE DECK MY OPPENENT HAS, THE CHANCE HE CAN DRAW THE CARD HE NEEDS MOST IS LESSER. This is why I want to make my deck as short as possible but with enough AoW to search for Typhon or Ketos when needed.

If my oppenent do not come out, Typhon can win the game by absording 4 omphalos before his finish his first deck ( by using Tornado to send him to next area with Omphalos at the end of Typhon's activation so he can absord 1 omphalus next round). If my oppenent come out to fight with Typhon, that unit will be killed by Typhon + Keto (33 damage output) in one turn. The weak point of Ketos is slow moving and Range 1 attack only. However, Typhon's tornado will bring enemy to Ketos or move Ketos for free.
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Biel
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PostSubject: Re: Ultimate army list I have now!   27th February 2017, 1:42 am

Biel wrote:
K. If Typhon suffer mighty throw from a tornado, it should be your opponent who choose where Typhon is thrown as it is from an area attack. No ?
And you can't use Tornado power during the turn Typhon absorbs.
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clarenceooi
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PostSubject: Ultimate army list I have now!   27th February 2017, 3:44 am

I checked with QW and his opinion is that tornado can throw himself and others to where he wanted, and can throw two units from the same area to two different areas. How to see which power can't be used after performing a complex action? The tornado is not an action, can be moved at the end of Typhon's activation. Therefore Typhon can absorb Omphalos, have a free movement to the next Omphalos with tornado, then absorb again in the next activation.
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clarenceooi
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PostSubject: Ultimate army list I have now!   27th February 2017, 3:52 am

@Aquile:
1. Diomedes special ability only work for God, not Titan. Unless they change the dashboard to Divinity Killer.
2. You have too many units, so the chances of you to get the card you need is very low compare with mines.
3. Your damage/turn is too low, you'll be flooded with useless destroyed unit activation cards very soon.
I'll explain point 2 and 3 in details very soon. Thanks!
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clarenceooi
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PostSubject: Ultimate army list I have now!   27th February 2017, 5:19 am

@QW: I'm glad that you're going to discuss with the team. I started to realise that a lot of units won't get to play at all with the current game rules and winning conditions. The current setting will prefer those units with more activation card, higher damage/turn, and a short deck. Which means those lower RP units will not get to use at all and the options will soon become very few. Let me break it up.
Conditions to win:
1. Kill the divinity.
2. Absorb four Omphalos.
Major rules:
A. Can only activate two units per turn.
B. Whoever finish the deck can reshuffle the discard pile.
C. Destroyed unit's activation card will act as one AoW for any two of them.
D. Activation and action are depending on what card you draw from the deck.
- Condition 1, 2, and Rules A will require me to select the maximum activation card and damage/turn unit, it'll help to keep my deck short too.
- Rules A make it impossible for a few lower damage/turn unit to work together to take on a high damage opponent, as they still can only move two units no matter how many of them. While the opponent can give maximum damage every turn and kill the weaker unit one by one. Imagine if I have 10x RP2 units against a 2x RP5 units. I still can only activate two of the units per turn, which may give 6+6=12 attacks against a defense 9 unit. While my opponent can inflict to me 9+23=32 attack to my defense 8 or 7 units. My units will die before his, and i will start to get useless activation cards from my destroyed unit. The best is if my divinity is there too, then my opponent only need to kill my divinity before my weaker unit can kill any of them.
- Condition 2, Rules A, B, and D will require me to have a short deck. Imagine Typhon with 6x activation out of a 18 cards, compare to my opponent's divinity who only has 4x activation out of 25cards, who will get first? If I finish my deck, I reshuffle and get to activate my Typhon again while my opponent may not be able to finish his full divinity activations as he is spending his activation on other smaller units. Therefore even if he got 40 cards in hand when I finish my deck, he still can only activate 2 units per turn, which make no difference to me as I'm still fully utilize my available units.
- The only way for weaker unit team to activate more than 2 units is by using Athena or Agamemnon, but both are weak, slow, and less activation cards when compare to the long reach of Typhon+ tornado.
- Rules C will require you to have a very short deck and high value unit too, as you don't want to end up keep drawing destroyed unit cards.


My suggestion for your considerations:
- Rules A and Condition B is very important when decide the special power of a unit. Especially power that can grant free movement (like Ketos only shortcoming of movement can be overcome by the use of tornado), free multiple attack (like Ketos 23 dices without AoW), the range of weaker unit's special power (like Androneda, Echo etc with movement of one and reach of 0 or 1 only, where tornado can easily separate them from other units and make them out of reach).
- option to discard one AoW to get rid of as many destroyed units' activation cards so not to clog up the deck and encourage people to select lower RP units base on their strategy.
- More activation per turn (is not more activation card)for weaker units team so I really can use multiple low RP units against the high RP unit with balance.
- I love the game and all the miniatures, so I hope the game is balance, all miniatures get to play equally if want to, and it'll be replayable for a long time.

Anyone got other input for the team? Thanks!
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Terenceooi
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PostSubject: Re: Ultimate army list I have now!   27th February 2017, 10:53 am

@Aquile 10: Hephaestus (4act with Flames of the Forge) can never reach Typhon because Typhon (6act) can use Tornado to migthy throw Hephaestus away if Hephaestus tries to get close to Typhon. Typhon can absorp omphalos all the way and use free Tornado to keep any slow moving unit (1 moment, such as Hephaestus, Gaia, even Ketos) away from him. These slow moving units can only use all their activation card and move back and forth, back and forth if they try to get close to Typhon.
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Terenceooi
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PostSubject: Re: Ultimate army list I have now!   27th February 2017, 10:58 am

@still 999: I agree with your suggestion: If this combination turns out to be a balance issue, perhaps an additional rule could be that 5 point units can not be selected if the player has also selected a titan.

This can prevent a player to select two strongest units (like Typhon + Ketos) and keep using them all the time which will break the balance.
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Terenceooi
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PostSubject: Re: Ultimate army list I have now!   27th February 2017, 11:14 am

I played with Clarence many times and we find out that no God/Titans can counter with Typhon+ Ketos combination.
Clarence once used Kronos to discard my Typhon's activation card to stop me from keep activating Typhon/Ketos. Then I came out with an idea to countered him with [Typhon+Ketos+Sisyphus+ Hoplites, minimize total cards, maximize AOW cards, always has a troop to protect Typhon] next game to minimize my deck so even he discarded my Typhon's activation cards with Kronos, I can still get it back when I finished my short deck as soon as possible ( I even used AOW to draw two cards that I did not need at all, just to finish my deck as soon as possible). His Kronos died next turn after I get my discarded Typhon's and Ketos' activation card back to my deck. Kronos died under Typhon+ ketos (10+ 23 = 33 dice) next turn.




Last edited by Terenceooi on 27th February 2017, 11:18 am; edited 2 times in total
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clarenceooi
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PostSubject: Re: Ultimate army list I have now!   27th February 2017, 11:15 am

Why we bring out this topic is more than discussion of any particular unit that is overpower. The overpower issues can be addressed by simply change the dashboard, add in Aow Cost etc.
What I would like to see is further, and more fundamental solution for the possibility to have A FEW WEAK HEROES VS ONE BIG MONSTER. If this can't be done, then all the small and interesting heroes won't get to play at all! No Fun...
Currently the rule for 2 activation per turn, clogging of destroyed unit's activation card, super powerful individual etc have made this impossible for weak to overcome strong by numbers.
Hope QW will have a good discussion with the team and play test it so we can have a more balance game when we finally receive it.
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clarenceooi
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PostSubject: Re: Ultimate army list I have now!   27th February 2017, 11:32 am

Yes, we have tried and discussed many combination but still don't think it can beat Typhon+Ketos. Below are some of the units we tried base on the current dashboard in case you want to suggest the same:
1. all ranged attack God and heroes: too weak
2. Perseus, Echo, Andromeda, Agamemnon, Theseus, Bellerophone
3. Kronos which get to attack every activation and discard either Typhon or Ketos activation cards. However as Terence pointed out, he still can get the minimum 3 cards that he needed (1act Typhon+1act Ketos+1Aow) as his deck is short and he doesn't need AoW for attack at all.
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Terenceooi
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PostSubject: Re: Ultimate army list I have now!   27th February 2017, 11:40 am

Let's say if we change the rule to maximum 3 activation per turn, but the maximum activated RP cannot exceed 12.
So I can activate 2 units this turn: Typhon (10RP) and Atlanta (2RP) (need 1AOW to activate the second unit) [ but not Typhon (10RP) + Keto (5RP) because total RP=15, >12]
Other player can activate 3 units next turn if they want to use weaker units: Ares (6RP) + Hercules (4RP)(need 1 AOW to activate the second unit)+ Caucasian eagles (2RP) (need another 1 AOW to activate the 3rd unit)
Can it bring the balance back and realize A FEW WEAK HEROES VS ONE BIG MOSTER concept?
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Terenceooi
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PostSubject: Re: Ultimate army list I have now!   27th February 2017, 12:21 pm

I can minimize my deck furhter to
Typhon (10RP) + Ketos (5RP) + Hoplites (1RP) + 2 omphalus cards (2RP) = 18RP (3AOW at the begining + 2 omphalus cards = 5 AOW)
so I can search for Typhon's, Ketos' activation card if needed, replenish Typhon vitality by 2 if needed, and finish my deck as soon as possible to get back Typhon's and Ketos' activation card again from discarded pile.
I always draw the cards I need (either Typhon and Ketos because my deck is very short), my oponent always draw the card he doesn't need (too diverse, if you already have 4 AOW at hand, it is very frustating to draw another AOW card)
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PostSubject: Re: Ultimate army list I have now!   27th February 2017, 2:46 pm

I will point out that if you fast cycle a deck against a Medusa / Basalisk combo while relying on only 2 units, you will spend all of your time petrified. You won't be able to draw AoW cards fast enough to unpetrify yourself, let alone blast out nasty combos.
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Terenceooi
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PostSubject: Re: Ultimate army list I have now!   27th February 2017, 3:29 pm

@Obsidiox:
Typhon, who has longest reach (movement 2 + range 1) has initiate to attack (10dice) and throw either Medusa/Basalisk to Ketos, or use tornado to throw either Medusa/Basalisk next to Ketos or use tornado to thow Ketos to next to Medusa/Basalisk. Then Ketos can move into either Medusa/Basalisk and attack with another 23 dice (9+7+7). Typhon + Ketos (total 33 dice) can kill Medusa or Basalisk in one turn (even God cannot withstrand this 33dice. You can try throwing 33 dice to see whether Medusa can stand for it or not). The one left (either Medusa or Basalisk) can only petrify either Typhon/Ketos. The one who is not petrify (either typhon/Ketos) can cripple/kill the next one.
If I want to play safe, I can position my troop (use free tornado) to stand between your unit and Typhon/Ketos so you can not move 2 area to them (you have to stop when you move into the area with my troop), so you can not petrify my unit but I can still attack you on my turn.


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caibre
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PostSubject: Re: Ultimate army list I have now!   27th February 2017, 3:35 pm

You need to have all these cards in the perfect order to make this combo work as intended. Reality is never that simple.

Also, while Typhon can push and damage Medusa heavily, he won't be able to one-shot her and can be vulnerable to a counterattack. Several gods have huge range and can snipe Typhon and force him to commit and then hammer him with stuns. Without an actual game example of this running away completely unchecked, it's not really fruitful discussion to go into the potential of a "perfect" combo.
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Voice of Olympus
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PostSubject: Re: Ultimate army list I have now!   27th February 2017, 3:48 pm

Thanks for the comments guys. Some good points.

One thing that's been suggested a few times is that people will cherry pick only a certain group of units. Some will always be left on the shelf. Well, everyone has favorites, and if you play with the same people and the same pool you're bound to have those units you collectively prefer. Which is one reason we have the recruitment cards.

While you can restrict or modify your pool of available units without them, having recruitments cards (which were a SG, so you all get them) makes this much easier. And not being able to get your default choice means that you have to think about things again, and that refreshes the whole game.

I like playing with units I don't know well because it's a whole new challenge, plus I sometimes discover gems I didn't realise were there, or combos I hadn't considered. By using the recruitment cards to randomly select a pool of, say, half the units, I am given a new puzzle each time.

Then there's the suggestion that you might build an army for anything other than making it the strongest. You could be constructing a themed force, for example. Winning at all costs isn't the only way to play, and may not be the most fun.

So I think that there will be plenty of use for all the units in the game Smile
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PostSubject: Ultimate army list I have now!   27th February 2017, 3:55 pm

I used Perseus to petrified twice, until no more activation card, but my brother still can attack me with either Ketos or Typhon (with enough AOW from Sisyphus). He really doesn't need many AoW as all his attack don't require AoW. I can only activate one more unit after Perseus, therefore it come down to one on one, which he's happy to do it.
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Terenceooi
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PostSubject: Re: Ultimate army list I have now!   27th February 2017, 3:56 pm

@Caibre:
Reality is that simple, my deck is short.
Typhon (6act), Ketos (4act), Hoplites (3Act), 2 omphalos card, and 3 free AOW = total 18 cards only.
The chance that I draw Typhon's or Ketos' activation card is much higher than what you want to draw for your unit.
Trust me ( I tried many times already) , after 3 turns of deplopying 3 units (1 unit/ turn), I already got at least 2 Typhon, 2 Ketos' acitvation cards. Or I can always use AOW to searh for their activation card if I am unlucky in drawing card. I do not mind spending AOW card to search1 or draw 2 cards because I want to finish my deck as soon as possible. Even if I am not lucky to get Typhon's/ Ketos' activation card in the first 3 turns, then the rest of the card deck must be all their activation card because I only have 3 units (unless you accidentally put your activation card in my deck Razz). If I do not get Typhon/Ketos's activation in first 3 turns, then it means all the cards in my hand are AOW/Omphalus/Hoplites card, then the rest of the card deck are all Typhon/Keto's activation cards. The reality is simple. I can activate the killers (Typhon + Ketos) many many times, more than what you wish to activate your own unit.


Last edited by Terenceooi on 27th February 2017, 4:03 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Ultimate army list I have now!   

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Ultimate army list I have now!
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