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skies
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PostSubject: Minotaur Abilities   31st December 2016, 5:40 pm

Does the charge ability take the place of the Minotaur's turn, or can the Minotaur get to charge, and then do two simple actions as normal?  The ability consists of a move and attack, but it's also shown by the hourglass, which doesn't inherently require the use of any actions, right?  

How does bloodthirst work exactly?  It seems really bad having to spend an art of war card to reroll just 1 dice, as he only rolls up to 7 dice per attack.  Or is it supposed to work like:
Minotaur charge ability has him attacking 4 enemy units (4 groups of 6 dice), so for each of those attacks he gets 4 re-rolls?  Or is it just 1 dice for the first attack; as he's only rolled 1 group, 2 dice for the second, 3 for the third, and so on?
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Telgar
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PostSubject: Re: Minotaur Abilities   31st December 2016, 6:55 pm

It was confirmed earlier that there is a mistake on the dashboard. Charge cost 1 AoW and Bloodthirst is free.

The way I read the Bloodthirst Power is that you can reroll 1 dice (out of 6) on each of your 4 attacks (using your example).
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Leonidas
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PostSubject: Re: Minotaur Abilities   1st January 2017, 6:44 pm

Hi Skies,

There is indeed a mistake on the dashboard (layout mistake). I definitely confirm that Charge costs 1 AoW and Bloodthirst is free.

When the Minotaur uses the Charge Power, he can't do anything else. No more actions (no more attacks, or move, or claiming of an omphalos). You're right though, maybe we shouldn't show the Hourglass for this power. Quirkworthy/Voice of Olympus will fix that, but I know for sure the power is meant to work as I said: Charge during the Minotaur's turn, and nothing else can happen (his Bloodthirst power still works during the Charge).

The way Bloodthirst works is this: every time you roll a 5, you can reroll another dice. If you roll another 5, then you can again reroll another dice. Until you don't roll 5s or you don't want to reroll.
Let me give you an example:
Minotaur attacks a unit of 4 Amazons. He rolls 7 dice and gets the following results:
0, 0, 0, 1, 2, 4, 5.
A very poor roll. With such a roll, he would only kill 2 amazons.
Because he rolled a 5, he has the right to reroll another dice. He chooses to reroll one of the three 0s. He gets 5.
His new roll is :
5, 0, 0, 1, 2, 4, 5.
Because he rolled again a 5, he gets to reroll another dice. He chooses to reroll another of the two remaining 0s. He gets a 2.
His final roll is:
5, 2, 0, 1, 2, 4, 5. It is still considered to be his first roll.
The 5, 4 and 5 is more than the 4 Defence of the Amazons, so he kills 3 Amazons.
And then, he keeps a 2 (one of the two 2s) and puts away the 1 and the 2 (the 0 is lost), getting two +1 bonuses to add to the 2.
So 2 +1 +1 = 4. Enough to kill the fourth and last Amazon.

I hope it's clearer now! We will fix all this on the new Dashboard.

Thanks for noticing that!
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Telgar
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PostSubject: Re: Minotaur Abilities   1st January 2017, 10:22 pm

Thanks Leo for the information. A rewrite is indeed required as I understood different things :

1/ Charge. Should it be the lightning symbol ? (alternate attack) In this case, move + charge or charge + claim Omphalos for instance may be possible.
Or should it replace all simple actions ?

[Edit] Your description is clear. Not sure what the symbol is for a all-activation action.

2/ Bloodthirst. So this is completely different than the text "reroll 1 dice for every group of 5 dice".
Cool system but won't it be too long to describe in the power section Rolling Eyes
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Voice of Olympus
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PostSubject: Re: Minotaur Abilities   1st January 2017, 11:06 pm

Charge is a funny one as it is intended to take up both the unit's simple actions, rather than just the ATTACK a normal special attack does. This needs to be explained on the dashboard.

Bloodthirst confused me too, and needs a complete rewrite.
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Oni60
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PostSubject: Re: Minotaur Abilities   2nd January 2017, 11:25 am

Maybe :

"Before resolving your first roll, everytime you roll a 5, you may reroll another dice".
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PostSubject: Re: Minotaur Abilities   2nd January 2017, 11:37 am

I see. So basically Charge will use 2 simple actions.
Then probably the same will the case with the Boar's Charge, Tityos' Rock and Roll and the Bull's Conflagration. Still leaving the option of performing an "end of turn" power.
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PostSubject: Re: Minotaur Abilities   2nd January 2017, 12:22 pm

@Teowulff - exactly. Same for all of them, and leaves the option for other powers at the end.
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skies
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PostSubject: Re: Minotaur Abilities   2nd January 2017, 4:20 pm

Oh, that's for that explanation. It makes a lot more sense now.

For power's like Minotaur charge that are supposed to use both simple actions, you could probably just add the text "use this power as a special action", or you could make a new ability type and symbol if there are enough 'this ability is the turn' abilities.
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Telgar
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PostSubject: Re: Minotaur Abilities   2nd January 2017, 4:33 pm

"Special action" has a special meaning Rolling Eyes and it implies that Powers cannot be used which is not the case here.
However, I agree that we could have a dedicated symbol to designate a power which expands all simple actions.
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Ken
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PostSubject: Re: Minotaur Abilities   2nd January 2017, 5:46 pm

With this rule change, Bloodthirst went from mediocre to really good.
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PostSubject: Re: Minotaur Abilities   4th January 2017, 6:59 pm

Good to know the clarification for the Minotaur. I'm happy to see the team is working on making these updates. When changes to the card are made will they be posted somewhere for us to see... maybe a dedicated forum area?
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PostSubject: Re: Minotaur Abilities   4th January 2017, 9:12 pm

I would like too to see updated dashboards but I guess work on rules is to be performed first.
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Teowulff
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PostSubject: Re: Minotaur Abilities   5th January 2017, 8:15 am

I'm a bit surprised that a dashboard of a core box unit that has been playtested for over a year has so many errata! Smile

Were these mere translational issues or .. ?
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Ken
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PostSubject: Re: Minotaur Abilities   7th January 2017, 3:54 am

Leonidas wrote:
There is indeed a mistake on the dashboard (layout mistake). I definitely confirm that Charge costs 1 AoW and Bloodthirst is free.

When the Minotaur uses the Charge Power, he can't do anything else. No more actions (no more attacks, or move, or claiming of an omphalos). You're right though, maybe we shouldn't show the Hourglass for this power. Quirkworthy/Voice of Olympus will fix that, but I know for sure the power is meant to work as I said: Charge during the Minotaur's turn, and nothing else can happen (his Bloodthirst power still works during the Charge).

The way Bloodthirst works is this: every time you roll a 5, you can reroll another dice. If you roll another 5, then you can again reroll another dice. Until you don't roll 5s or you don't want to reroll.

I mocked up a dashboard to incorporate these changes for the Minotaur for my PNP. This is easier than having to explain the changes to my friends all the time. Smile

Figured I would share here in case anyone else is having the same troubles.

(If it is not appropriate to post this, let me know and I will remove it.)



Last edited by Ken on 7th January 2017, 4:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Minotaur Abilities   7th January 2017, 4:52 am

+1 Ken!
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PostSubject: Re: Minotaur Abilities   7th January 2017, 5:03 am

Teowulff wrote:


Were these mere translational issues or .. ?

Leo and/or QW stated one reason for the bad dashboards was the rush to create dashboards to show during the campaign. The demo videos all showed a wheel dashboard that I'm glad they didn't stay with. While I worry about wear, this slider design is much better. But that led to the wrong files being used. That's the story being told.

I think there's still some balancing to do. You can see the designer giving QW a heads up that the Atlanta wheel had 1 too many AoW being provided. Guess what her dashboard said in the PnP? I don't mind this. There's obviously a lot of love and interest in getting things right. I don't think it's possible to ship a perfect board game. Too many variables. And opinion is always going to be subjective. But this is a good place and it's doing a great job helping fix as much as possible before the mighty print button gets pushed.
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PostSubject: Re: Minotaur Abilities   7th January 2017, 6:00 am

Ken wrote:
Leonidas wrote:
There is indeed a mistake on the dashboard (layout mistake). I definitely confirm that Charge costs 1 AoW and Bloodthirst is free.

When the Minotaur uses the Charge Power, he can't do anything else. No more actions (no more attacks, or move, or claiming of an omphalos). You're right though, maybe we shouldn't show the Hourglass for this power. Quirkworthy/Voice of Olympus will fix that, but I know for sure the power is meant to work as I said: Charge during the Minotaur's turn, and nothing else can happen (his Bloodthirst power still works during the Charge).

The way Bloodthirst works is this: every time you roll a 5, you can reroll another dice. If you roll another 5, then you can again reroll another dice. Until you don't roll 5s or you don't want to reroll.

I mocked up a dashboard to incorporate these changes for the Minotaur for my PNP. This is easier than having to explain the changes to my friends all the time. Smile

Figured I would share here in case anyone else is having the same troubles.

(If it is not appropriate to post this, let me know and I will remove it.)


I might have missed this, but is Bloodthirst only available on the first lot of rolls? For instance, if you roll a 5 on an exploding dice, can you reroll another exploding dice if it rolled a blank for instance?
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Ken
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PostSubject: Re: Minotaur Abilities   7th January 2017, 6:10 am

Without evidence to the contrary, I would assume it works whenever you roll a natural five.

By the way, looks like this power already exists under a different name.

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PostSubject: Re: Minotaur Abilities   7th January 2017, 9:56 am

Ahhhh yes, well it would make sense to have the same wording on both of these, the winged apes seems clearer
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PostSubject: Re: Minotaur Abilities   7th January 2017, 10:14 am

Cryocat wrote:
Ahhhh yes, well it would make sense to have the same wording on both of these, the winged apes seems clearer

But this Herald one got a difference too =))
Its only on natural 5, so no mix and no other 5 than the first throw.
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PostSubject: Re: Minotaur Abilities   7th January 2017, 8:56 pm

Leo's example doesn't mention this since his target number is 4, but the wording of Bloodlust gives the impression that Bloodthirst could trigger rerolls by building a die to an "unnatural" 5. I assume that's what Garshell means by "mix". So if I roll a 4, 1, and a blank:

I could remove the 1.
Turn the 4 to a 5.
Reroll the blank.

Is this the intent?
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