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 Beta rules 2.0

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Voice of Olympus
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PostSubject: Re: Beta rules 2.0   31st December 2016, 10:05 am

Some great suggestions, and good catches. This is exactly what I was hoping for Smile

Interesting point on who recruits armies, and reducing troops to 1 model. Perhaps it needs to say that they start with 2+ models.

I'll be putting up the next step in the beta 2.1 tonight, and will include these corrections along with another section for you to read through.
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onlyonepinman
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PostSubject: Re: Beta rules 2.0   31st December 2016, 10:45 am

If an alternative word for "Combat Value" is still required/desired and that word needs to infer the meaning of attack, has anyone considered "Offence"? Seems to be a fairly logical step considering we also have Defence as a stat.
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PostSubject: Re: Beta rules 2.0   31st December 2016, 11:28 am

eateng wrote:
This is a list of some consistency issues, mostly about bolding, that I've come across:

Allied: last "allied" should be bolded.

Area attack:  If you are keeping "allied" in addition to "friendly" then "allied" should be included in the units affected by an area attack.

Attack:  The first "unit" and the next 2 "attack"s are not bolded.

God: "recruit" should be bolded.

Owned/owner: "units" should be bolded.

Pass: "deck" should be bolded.

Recall: "unit", "troops", "area" and "God" should be bolded.

Recruit: "unit" should be bolded.

Recruitment Points: "recruit" should be bolded.

Simple action: "Attack" should be bolded.  

Scenario: "units" should be bolded.

Stat: the first "stats" should be bolded.

Titan: "recruit" and the second "Titans" should be bolded.

Troops: the first "Troops" and the second "unit" should be bolded.

B) Action Phase:
    1) "deck" should be bolded.
    2)  b. "unit" should be bolded.
    3)  a. "turn" should be bolded.
         b. "unit" should be bolded.

C) End of Turn Phase:
    1) "card" should be bolded.


In addition to what eateng has written:


Enemy: "owned" should be bolded.

Friendly: "owned" should be bolded.

Lead player: "scenario" should be bolded.

Pass: "draw" should be sbolded.

*Scenario* goes before *Simple action*.

*Titan* goes before *Token*.

Wound: "Vitality" should be in italics (in *Wounded* appears in that way).

Rules hierarchy:
· in the list of hierarchy, "scenario" should be bolded;
· in the last paragraph, "active player" should be bolded (only "active" is).
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Malamute
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PostSubject: Re: Beta rules 2.0   31st December 2016, 12:21 pm

Quote :
Scenario: a way to set up the game. Every game is played using a scenario. This
lists everything you need to know for that particular conflict, including which
map(s) to use, what units are available, how they are deployed, and how each
side wins the game.

Should there be a defined difference between a Scenario and a Skirmish?

Or is a skirmish just a type of scenario?
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TontonFranz
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PostSubject: Re: Beta rules 2.0   31st December 2016, 12:25 pm

Hi QW,
Nice idea to release by part, it's easier to read.
Some remarks that I didn't see yet:
- round is in bold but not defined in the list of keywords
- In Attack, you just mention Friendly and Enemy, what do we make of Allied, can you attack your Allied units? It is written you attack enemy units, but as the only difference made before is friendly or enemy it could be confusing (and who doesn't like a traitor Laughing ?)
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Voice of Olympus
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PostSubject: Re: Beta rules 2.0   31st December 2016, 12:28 pm

After some conversations with the team, I'm removing allied. If it is needed for a specific scenario then it can be a scenario rule. Taking it out of the core rules is cleaner.

Skirmish is really just a scenario type. Admittedly, a very flexible scenario that I expect will see far more use than the others, but in rules terms just a scenario.
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PostSubject: Re: Beta rules 2.0   31st December 2016, 12:30 pm

I forgot to mention: onlyonepinman's suggestion of Offence for Combat value/Attack is a good one.
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PostSubject: Re: Beta rules 2.0   31st December 2016, 1:07 pm

I don't see any mention of the use of AoW cards to search one's deck for a specific card. Shouldn't this be in the summary, just as the "activate a second unit" and "call troops back to your god" options?
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Teowulff
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PostSubject: Re: Beta rules 2.0   31st December 2016, 1:33 pm

About the former rulebook (not about these 5 pages): PLEASE stop explaining 80% of the rules for a "test scenario" and start all over again explaining the remaining 20%!

It's a horrible way to explain the rules and makes everything scattered.

That's it (for now) .. more next year! ;-)
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PostSubject: Re: Beta rules 2.0   31st December 2016, 1:37 pm

The keywords as they stand are the initial list off the top of my head. My expectation was that each time I added a new section that would trigger the need for a few more.

I'm not entirely sure how much detail should be in the keyword section. At the moment, I think the best compromise is to include all the info in a definition when it's short, and a summary and a page reference for more involved rules.

So in the case of AoW I should be adding a summary.

@Teowulff - the previous style has been abandoned. The getting started and full rules will now be separate books. That means each can focus on being the best at those different and somewhat conflicting aims.
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PostSubject: Re: Beta rules 2.0   31st December 2016, 2:31 pm

Also, have you thought about having a brief "Frequently Asked Questions" section in the rulebook that we players can even help compile? Questions like Can you active the same unit twice? or Do passive powers activate after a unit is deployed? that might come up while you're playing could find their answer in the FAQ, so you don't have to go through pages and pages.
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Teowulff
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PostSubject: Re: Beta rules 2.0   31st December 2016, 2:56 pm

Voice of Olympus wrote:
@Teowulff - the previous style has been abandoned. The getting started and full rules will now be separate books. That means each can focus on being the best at those different and somewhat conflicting aims.

Thanks for that, I must have missed it!
That's a big improvement!! Very Happy
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Telgar
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PostSubject: Re: Beta rules 2.0   31st December 2016, 4:43 pm

Voice of Olympus wrote:
I'm removing allied.

I am not sure of the implication here : what are the rules in 2 vs 2 ? Are your partner's units considered as enemies or friends ?
If friends : it requires a new definition of friendly I guess.
If enemies : it means you cannot pass Omphalos, you are blocking your friend's unit, etc... So I suppose this is not the case.
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Telgar
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PostSubject: Re: Beta rules 2.0   31st December 2016, 5:02 pm

Here are my comments after a second read of the beta rules part I :

1/ God, Heroes, Monsters, Troops : maybe we should refer to the color of the dashboard here.

Quote :
Power: one of a series of skills or abilities that aid a unit in battle.
2/ We know for sure that some powers are not a blessing but rather a curse ^^

Quote :
Scenario: a way to set up the game. Every game is played using a scenario.
3/ Not skirmish games or is this considered as a specific scenario ?

4/ Turn sequence B1: I believe there should be a note here to indicate if you cannot draw a card there is a special phase. But I recognize that is not the only point in the turn when it can happen. (A2a, B2d, B2f...)
The Battle Cycle could be described in the same way as a special sequence.

5/ Turn sequence B2a & B3a: Maybe (for sake of clarity) it should be mentioned you select a unit for which you have Activation Card in your hand.

6/ Turn sequence B2e: Specify that simple actions are taken sequentially and cannot be split (movement...). That is 0-2 different actions.

7/ Turn sequence B3: the wording may make people think they have to activate a second unit if they can (if they have an AoW). I suggest indicating this is an option.

Quote :
Recall: the process of summoning a unit of troops to the same area as your God.
8/ Will it be described more extensively later ? Points to address: the troop must have been on the battlefield, the troop can be summoned even on a terrain it can't reach on its own (unpassable), the troop is restored to full strength.
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PostSubject: Re: Beta rules 2.0   31st December 2016, 5:37 pm

I would like to second Biel's Divinity keyword. I thought of the same word as I was reading the rules. By having a combined keyword for all the leader/avatar units, you can easily group them when needed for victory conditions or recruitment restrictions, without needing to say gods and titans every time you wanted to refer to both. It also makes it clear when you are only referring to one type. For example if diomedes was only supposed to have protection from godly powers you would keep the god keyword but if he is supposed to be used against titans as well then his powers would use the divinity keyword. The divinity keyword also allows other branches of divine avatars to be added in later seasons (Jotunn or Djinn perhaps)

Concerning the owned/owner keyword, perhaps you could change it to Controlled controller instead to avoid the physical ownership confusion. Also rather than saying "belong to an specific players army" you could say "recruited by a specific player". This would use the recruit keyword and would clarify how ownership/control is gained.

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PostSubject: Re: Beta rules 2.0   31st December 2016, 6:02 pm

I missed Biel's post.
I agree, Divinity could be a great way to encompass both Gods and Titans.

It even works for Divinity Cards as both Gods and Titans have them.

By the way, as Divinity Cards are a KS goal, how will this be addressed in the rules ? (idem for villagers)
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Voice of Olympus
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PostSubject: Re: Beta rules 2.0   31st December 2016, 9:25 pm

Righty-ho.

Just about to post up the new version. I've incorporated many of your suggestions. A couple that have not made it in are down to the comment really being about a different section of the rules. So you'll see that effect later.

Orword's suggestion about a FAQ is interesting. The intent was to make the rules clear enough for you not to need this.

Allies have been removed. They will be defined in scenarios if necessary.

I've removed the keywords for attack because it is an action name, and is more appropriate to define in that section.

Skirmish is a scenario.

Still discussing divinity.

The battle cycle will be dealt with elsewhere. It can be triggered in all sorts of places, so it's better to define it outside the turn sequence to avoid extra clutter.

I'm now going to lock this thread (if I can work out now) so please comment on the new thread with version 2.1 Smile
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