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 The Herculean Turtle

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WTFGamer
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PostSubject: The Herculean Turtle   30th December 2016, 10:09 am

Couldn't post a link to match photo. I'll put it on KS.
Faced this situation today in a match. Hercules is in a 3 unit max space with Athena and Cerberus. Hades and Medusa oppose in adjacent areas with enough AoW cards to petrify and use Hades' ranged power.(sorry, in bed typing on iPad).

1. Petrify can't happen because Medusa can't move into the fully occupied space. Torment doesn't work for Hades for the same reason. Is this correct?

2. Hades' ranged power hits all enemies right? Hercules doesn't get to guard an area attack and modify all the dice rolls coming against only him does he?
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Teowulff
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PostSubject: Re: The Herculean Turtle   30th December 2016, 11:15 am

What I'd think:

1. I think Medusa can attack into the turtle. The range+1 bonus when attacking a full province should also count for powers and talents.

2. Hercules can take all attacks on him and subsequently re roll the dice.
Unless you petrify him first .. ;-)
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PostSubject: Re: The Herculean Turtle   30th December 2016, 2:51 pm

Until we have an official answer about this situation, i m asking another point on this case.
If Medusa or Hades get this +1 range cause of the full ennemy aera, does this attack still count as a range attack or a melee one ? Because if the turtle is in a forest zone, then they will get the +1 def against range attack.
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Teowulff
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PostSubject: Re: The Herculean Turtle   30th December 2016, 2:55 pm

Garshell wrote:
Until we have an official answer about this situation, i m asking another point on this case.
If Medusa or Hades get this +1 range cause of the full ennemy aera, does this attack still count as a range attack or a melee one ? Because if the turtle is in a forest zone, then they will get the +1 def against range attack.
As far as I understand:
- If you have range 1+ (like Medusa) to start with you can choose your attack to be ranged or melee.
Hades' Inferno power is tricky .. but as it has to be adjacent area I think it would still count as ranged.
Torment only works for melee, though. And petrify doesn't count as an attack - so I don't think it matters much.
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PostSubject: Re: The Herculean Turtle   30th December 2016, 11:20 pm

Garshell wrote:
If Medusa or Hades get this +1 range cause of the full ennemy aera, does this attack still count as a range attack or a melee one ?
Any attack performed thanks to the +1 range bonus is considered melee. That's page 15 of the rulebook. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: The Herculean Turtle   30th December 2016, 11:54 pm

I think the issue there Orword is the attack wouldn't need to be made due to the +1 range bonus to melee. An adjacent Medusa can always make a ranged attack from an adjacent space. So she would have an option of a melee or ranged attack.

My real question involving Medusa is due to seeing her Petrify power shut down by units stacking in low unit count spaces. This may be by design. There are ways around it. If you draft units with Mighty Throw, you could potentially clear a path for her to get in. It was just an unexpected limitation that only gameplay would illuminate. I want to be sure I'm interpreting the intent correctly.
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PostSubject: Re: The Herculean Turtle   31st December 2016, 12:05 am

Yep, as I said, that is only applied to attacks making use of the bonus (since they wouldn't be able to enter the area otherwise).

WTFGamer wrote:
My real question involving Medusa is due to seeing her Petrify power shut down by units stacking in low unit count spaces.
Indeed, that is a good way of shutting down Medusa, but I can see that compensating for how powerful her power can sometimes be.
Regarding the "Herculeian turtle", I've experienced it myself and I agree it can be incredibly frustrating. He's such a strong hero.
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PostSubject: Re: The Herculean Turtle   2nd January 2017, 11:36 pm

The full area rules need rewording to avoid this sort of confusion. Petrify, Torment, etc should work into a full area.

Also, Heracles does not have Guard. I hadn't noticed before, but that dashboard is wrong.
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PostSubject: Re: The Herculean Turtle   3rd January 2017, 12:00 am

Voice of Olympus wrote:
The full area rules need rewording to avoid this sort of confusion. Petrify, Torment, etc should work into a full area.

Also, Heracles does not have Guard. I hadn't noticed before, but that dashboard is wrong.

So what are the good Talents ?
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PostSubject: Re: The Herculean Turtle   3rd January 2017, 11:40 am

Voice of Olympus wrote:
The full area rules need rewording to avoid this sort of confusion. Petrify, Torment, etc should work into a full area.
Exactly what I thought. If you can melee attack into that area, I would expect all 0 range powers and talents to get a +1 range boost as well.

Seemed logical as the +1 rule seems to be there to prevent any advantages from turtling in a full area.
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PostSubject: Re: The Herculean Turtle   3rd January 2017, 1:25 pm

An area being full is an artefact of a board with areas on and is not replicating any real world event. For that reason it should not advantage people doing it.

Heracles has the talents: Mighty Throw, Block, and Leader.
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PostSubject: Re: The Herculean Turtle   3rd January 2017, 2:32 pm

@QW - BOOM! The HTurtle defense goes down like the Hindenburg at a fireworks show. Thanks for the feedback!
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PostSubject: Re: The Herculean Turtle   3rd January 2017, 2:34 pm

Nice analogy Wink
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Ken
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PostSubject: Re: The Herculean Turtle   3rd January 2017, 4:07 pm

Wow, those small zones just went from good defensive areas to death traps. Smile Time for me to change my tactics.
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PostSubject: Re: The Herculean Turtle   3rd January 2017, 5:24 pm

One question in line with that trick regarding full areas: can the Minotaur charge such an area?
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PostSubject: Re: The Herculean Turtle   3rd January 2017, 5:50 pm

An intriguing question. I would say no, simply because he cannot move into it. The attacks in a charge are a side-effect of the movement, and are not given a range as such.
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PostSubject: Re: The Herculean Turtle   3rd January 2017, 7:10 pm

I've got a charge question. Can the targets in the first space be tossed to the 2nd movement space and thus attacked a 2nd time in the same charge?
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PostSubject: Re: The Herculean Turtle   3rd January 2017, 8:02 pm

WTFGamer wrote:
I've got a charge question. Can the targets in the first space be tossed to the 2nd movement space and thus attacked a 2nd time in the same charge?
Not sure if "Charge" tosses anyone at all?? Smile

I think the Mighty Throw talent only comes into action after that. But for the Boar and its extra area attack it may be useful!
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PostSubject: Re: The Herculean Turtle   3rd January 2017, 8:07 pm

It could be cinematic move if you add a little rule =))
IF you Charge a Full aera, all units in this aera will be Mighty Throw automaticaly after each attack. The Minotaur (or the other with charge) will stay alone in this aera at the end of his activation.
XD STRIKE !!!!
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PostSubject: Re: The Herculean Turtle   3rd January 2017, 8:18 pm

The Minotaur has Mighty Throw. Against troops or a hero, he only needs a single miss to toss him to an adjacent space. That's the basis of the question. I didn't have the dashboard in front of me. It came up during a game I played a few days ago.
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PostSubject: Re: The Herculean Turtle   3rd January 2017, 8:21 pm

It's a fair question, and it has come up before, but I can't remember what Benoit said. So I've asked him again.

Charging is slightly odd in that it doesn't work quite like multiple area attacks normally do. It may be worth bringing it more into line with that, to make things more consistent, or we could leave it as is (with more clarity) for character.
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PostSubject: Re: The Herculean Turtle   3rd January 2017, 8:34 pm

WTFGamer wrote:
The Minotaur has Mighty Throw. Against troops or a hero, he only needs a single miss to toss him to an adjacent space. That's the basis of the question. I didn't have the dashboard in front of me. It came up during a game I played a few days ago.

=_= i know that too, the trick is not here. Actually Minautor is not allow to enter a full aera. By the way i said, i allow him to enter and STRIKE them all to make him place. (without blank needing because the aera was Full).
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PostSubject: Re: The Herculean Turtle   3rd January 2017, 8:45 pm

Ahh... I get you Garshell.

I didn't mean to hijack your subject. My question wasn't taking the space limit you mention into consideration.

This answers my question:

A talent’s non-numerical effects (such as Mighty Throw) do apply to powers.

I'm left wondering about the intent. Charge offering that 2nd potential attack makes it a difficult choice to do otherwise.
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Ken
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PostSubject: Re: The Herculean Turtle   7th January 2017, 3:47 am

Voice of Olympus wrote:
Heracles has the talents: Mighty Throw, Block, and Leader.

I mocked up a dashboard to incorporate these changes for Heracles for my PNP. Figured I would share here.

(If it is not appropriate to post this, let me know and I will remove it.)

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PostSubject: Re: The Herculean Turtle   7th January 2017, 4:42 am

Ken wrote:

I mocked up a dashboard to incorporate these changes for Heracles for my PNP. Figured I would share here.


Ken is a new god among villagers! I've been waiting for new boards instead of fixing the old ones. It's so annoying having to coach people about what's wrong with the printed materials. Thanks a heap. Please point it out if you post any more corrected materials. I've got a few games lined up this weekend.
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